A place for Ma'ayanot Judaic Studies Faculty and Students to reflect and dialogue about Judaism. Please send all comments & questions to besserd@maayanot.org. Now check us out on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Why-aanot/158509820897115
Friday, October 30, 2009
On the Other Hand
In a way, my story is the opposite of Jenn's. I was always convinced that I was going to Stern, until at some point last year when I decided why not see what else is out there. So I visited and did my research, and I have this to respond to Jenn's points (I have her okay on the matter):
1. The fact that Stern exists today is incredible. But the fact that something exists is not a reason to go somewhere. The freedom to practice religion openly in secular campus and have a minyan three times a day and kosher food in every dining hall on campus also didn't exist in most of our grandparents time.
2. In terms of learning, I definitely agree with Jenn and Mrs. Knoll and Mrs. Sinensky that that's a personal decision everybody needs to make on their own, in terms of what kind of environment is most conducive to your personal growth in Torah. And there are undeniably more opportunities at Stern. That said, I think the level of top notch serious learning that goes on on some of these secular campuses has been downplayed. Go to any Yavneh (or whatever they call the Orthodox branch of Hillel) website of most of the mainstream secular colleges that Yeshiva graduates go to and you'll see that there are almost always shiurim every night. Walk into the beit midrash at any given time and, (depending on the specific college), and you'll most probably find people learning independently and bchevruta. And they're learning serious stuff, too. The opportunities are right before you. No, they won't be forced upon you like they will at Stern (which again, is definitely not a bad thing). It will require an ounce of self motivation, but I think Ma'ayanot has well supplied us with that.
3. I think that there's a good chance that had I not gone to Maayanot (or an institution that would have provided my with an equal love and education in Gemara, if such an institution exists) I wouldn't have considered anything but Stern. But davka because Ma'ayanot has provided such a stellar background in Jewish studies (not even specifically Gemara, actually), I feel that I can explore other options. Ma'ayanot prides itself on its unique approach to Jewish education, on its ability to produce independent learners and thinkers, people who have the skills and ability to continue their pursuit of Torah study on their own. If that's the case (which thank God it is), then why should an environment in which everyone around has the same basic set of values be a factor (or necessity) in choosing a college experience? Hasn't Ma'ayanot prepared us for just that- to excercise our beliefs and continue our learning even (or davka) when not everyone around us is?
4. In terms of being a "worldly person." Jenn's lucky, she lives in the city. Most of us don't, and we have no idea what diversity is. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a believer of diversity for the sake of diversity. But like Mrs. Knoll said, I really think it's true that exposure to different ways of life makes you rethink your practices, and from the people I know in secular colleges, most of the time this has a truly positive effect. After all, how many of us actually know the origins of why we wash on bread or how to explain the reconciliation of evolution and sefer breishit? Exposure, as I've learned from speaking with frum kids in secular colleges, allows for both a better understanding and a greater appreciation of where you've come from.
5. Yes, at Stern you are surrounded by a majority of student and faculty body that share your relgious beliefs, but the fact is that Stern's general sense of Jewish community is not comparable to those found in secular colleges with strong Jewish populations. Davening with a minyan three times a day, chagim on campus, the Shabbat environment and all that includes (zmirot, slow shira, student divrei torah and shiurim) are a huge part of the religious experience at secular colleges, a factor that Stern for the most part lacks (because of it's nature of an all girls school, and its huge number of frum kids).
I think I covered the basics, though there's always more to say. I don't mean to write off Stern (I may even end up there)- it has all the advantages that Jenn and Mrs. Sinensky and Mrs. Knoll presented. But I think that it's crucial to keep in mind that not choosing Stern doesn't mean that you're making an active decision that Judaism and Torah isn't the most important thing in your life. These decisions are tough ones...
Thanks- Rachel Friedman
Thursday, October 29, 2009
A Student on Stern
Hi,
So I heard there was a post on the blog about Stern College and I decided to check it out. I don’t really know how this blog thing works but I had a few comments being that I am applying to Stern and I strongly stand behind my decision.
A year ago today I would have never imagined that I would be applying and considering Stern. I remember my father telling me throughout sophmore and junior year to “get excited for Stern” and I would look at his as if he were crazy and tell him that there was NO WAY I was going to Stern. I had this picture in my head of finally breaking out of my “Ma’ayanot Jewish Bubble” (ignoring that I live in the city where I am not really THAT isolated from the “real world”) and being part of a secular college where Id be able to meet all different types of people and become a “more worldly” person. I thought that college would be what I saw in the movies and I couldn’t wait to sort of “break free” and get away from the dual curriculum and dress codes that became somewhat a burden to me.
This all lasted until this past summer when I was able to sit down and look at my life and really start to think about what I wanted out of it. I knew I would come into school and be bombarded with college and Israel applications and I wanted to start the process to avoid the stress I knew it would come with. It was during this time that I really became attracted to the idea of a Jewish college and the more I thought about it the more I began to really believe in what was going through my head.Just to share a few of my thoughts:
1. I think it is extremely important for every Jewish girl (with a few exceptions) to look into Stern. I know that most of us take for granted the fact that we are given the incredible opportunity to go to a school with a dual curriculum. We don’t realize what an amazing thing it is to be educated both in the secular field as well as in Jewish studies. Years ago, this opportunity wasn’t available.. Ask your grandparents, they’ll tell you how it wasn’t so easy for them.
2. On a personal level, I know that if I were to attend a secular college I wouldn’t necessarily pick up a book and learn Torah in my free time. (I know this is not the case for everyone) I remember thinking to myself that if I were to attend a secular college would that be saying “Im done, im finished with my jewish education?!” and truthfully I think that yes, while of course I would be able to learn with my friends or even on my own, it would be nothing compared to what I would be learning at Stern! While this might not be at the top of everyones priorities, think of it this way.. We have the rest of our lives to live as Jews, how could you give up an opportunity to educate yourself in the material you will need to continue your life as a religious woman?! (including raising a Jewish family which all of us iyH will be doing!) This is something every girl needs to consider when she starts to think about the rest of her life, “do I wanna enhance my religious self?” Now, yes of course life will go on and you will be an educated Jew regardless of whether you attend Stern or not but the more the merrier! And to just repeat. How could you give up such a tremendous opportunity! And do you really want to put a end (or at least slow down) your Jewish education? These are things I think are really important to think about.
3. This may not apply to everyone but since I live in the city and don’t consider myself “sheltered” or “Naïve” I asked myself this question : Do you consider yourself a “worldly” or “street smart” person? Have you been exposed to things outside of your Jewish community? If you answered yes, which I did, then you don’t need to worry about the whole idea of missing out on a “Real college experience” because you know what’s out there and going to Stern really wont effect your worldly-ness. You got it already, you don’t need the “exposure to the real world “ that “happens” when you go to a secular college.
4. Also, Don’t keep telling yourself that you are keeping yourself in your Jewish circle (in a negative tone) because college is college, Sterns in the city, its not isolated from the world, just because its only made up of Jewish girls doesn’t mean its got the same “isolated in your Jewish circle- high school” feel. Its not.
Now everything I said, of course, doesn’t apply to everyone and it doesn’t mean that I think EVERY GIRL MUST GO TO STERN but im sure almost everyone can relate to at least one of the points I made and I think its important that every girl weigh her options and really open their eyes and look at Stern without a “pre-concieved” attitude and also, realize the incredible opportunity they would be giving up if they didn’t give Stern the chance.Thanks---Jennifer Herskowitz
Wednesday, October 28, 2009
Response to Mrs. Knoll
Regarding point A)—the potential religious growth that one can experience from being in a less-religious environment: I think that while this can be true for some people, one really needs to be honest with herself regarding if she is one of these people who davka “needs” to be in a “counter-culture” to grow religiously, or if she isn’t like most people who thrive by being surrounded by familiar values, positive religious role models, and readily available religious opportunities. This can be a difficult decision to make, and one that I think could be best made by introspecting and discussing with teachers, parents, advisors, friends, etc.
Regarding point B)—that the education at the Ivies may be superior to that at Stern College: I think that it is important to think about whether having the absolute “best” secular education is important to you, or if having a really amazing one that is not “the best” is something that works for you. To be honest, there are some works of literature that I wish I would have been exposed to in a more structured setting, and had I been in those Ivy required freshman seminars (I think Columbia calls it "LITHUM" or something), would have read. At the same time, I absolutely feel that my Stern education equipped me to read those works on my own, and I have read and B"H will read some of the works that I didn’t get to read in college.
Regarding point C)—that there is sophistication that comes from being new experiences, etc.: I think that is definitely true, based on my conversations with friends and colleagues about these issues. At the same time, there are other opportunities that we have in our lives to be exposed to these things if we choose, and that time necessarily doesn’t need to be during college.
Mrs. Knoll writes, “I genuinely believe it is a legitimate choice to go Ivy, but don’t do it without at least a glance behind. At least recognize that the same way as one sacrifices some degree of secular education by not going Ivy, she equally, if not more, sacrifices some degree of Jewish education by not going to Stern.”
I 100% agree that there are reasons to go Ivy, as long as the decision is made considering all the above points. The point Mrs. Knoll is making is that there is a significant sacrifice that a person makes if she chooses not to go to Stern. Stern does not just provide the opportunity to take Judaic Studies classes on a high level, but also offers the opportunity to be in an environment with religious role models, to be near a packed Beit Midrash, and to have all sorts of other religious opportunities at one’s fingertips.
On a personal note: During my first year at Stern, a Columbia application sat on my desk for a few months. After my first semester, when I had figured out which were the most challenging and interesting classes, I didn’t feel that I needed Columbia to get what I wanted out of my college experience. I found the Honors Program to be fantastic, and found the opportunity to write my thesis in Philosophy with Dr. Shatz to be a once-in-a-lifetime experience that I gained tremendously from in many respects. However, even before I joined the Honors Program (I only joined after my first year because I forgot to apply before!), I found many of the non-Honors classes that I chose to be truly wonderful.
In short—Stern is not a “one size fits all” option. But neither are the Ivies. As with most “big” decisions in life, there is a lot to consider. And if you make the wrong decision, you’re not stuck either. But it is definitely worth thinking about these issues seriously, because college will be a significant part of shaping who you are as an individual and as a Jew.
Tuesday, October 27, 2009
Stern College
HOWEVER, what I think is critical for any college-bound frum Jew to recognize is that even though the Ivies do surpass Stern in a number of important areas, Stern surpasses the Ivies in other areas, including academic ones. As I wrote above, I do believe the Ivies offer a superior education in secular studies than Stern does. But Stern not only offers a superior education in Torah than the Ivies do, the Ivies aren’t even in the same league! The degree to which one’s secular education suffers in Stern, I think, pales in comparison to the degree to which one’s Jewish education suffers in a secular college. I think it is one’s prerogative once she is graduating high school to decide that her secular studies are more important to her than her Judaic ones, or one may feel that she is more capable of supplementing Judaic studies on her own than secular ones (though I am not sure why this would be – it would seem to me to be easier to analyze an English text on one’s own than an Aramaic or Hebrew one). But my main point is simply this – I genuinely believe it is a legitimate choice to go Ivy, but don’t do it without at least a glance behind. At least recognize that the same way as one sacrifices some degree of secular education by not going Ivy, she equally, if not more, sacrifices some degree of Jewish education by not going to Stern.
One last point I want to express is that, as I wrote in the first paragraph, one of the primary advantages of a secular university over Stern is the exposure to different people from different cultures and backgrounds. I do believe that such exposure can be extremely valuable in terms of one’s own sophistication, depth of character, sensitivity, worldliness, etc. However, I think it’s important to point out that we often idealize these communities and view them as some type of intellectual paradise, while forgetting about all the drinking, sex, drugs, and who-knows-what-else that also go on at every college campus in America. So these communities do provide certain invaluable opportunities and experiences, but it’s important when making a decision not to forget about the darker side as well.
To sum up, I do believe that there are very legitimate reasons to choose a secular college – they do offer many valuable intellectual and social experiences that Stern does not, but make the decision with your eyes open, recognizing that Stern also offers many valuable intellectual and social experiences that a secular college does not.
Re Lashon Hara & the Torah
What an interesting conversation. I once heard a shiur from Rabbi Saul Zucker in Camp Morasha. He was explaining why lashon hara would be worse than motzi shem ra. Isn't worse to say something bad about a person that is not true than something that is? In Western law, truth is an absolute defense against charges of libel or slander, how can it be better to make something up than to simply report the truth?
He answered (based on a Rambam) that when we speak lashon hara, besides the bein adam l'chaveiro offense, we are also committing a sin bein adam lamakom. Hashem is meant to be the sole judge in the world, to the point that when human shoftim judge, it is only permissible because they are serving as God's agents (-the Torah calls a court Elohim). So when people speak motzi shem ra, they has offended the person and told a lie - both terrible crimes, but comparable to other similar offenses. When they tell lashon hara though, they have usurped the domain of Hashem by judging the object of the talk.
If so, much of the damage caused by lashon hara is not relevant to the Torah, as Hashem Himself is doing the judging.
As a side point this would also explain the otherwise bizarre discussion of the חטא המרגלים as being lashon hara against Eretz Yisrael. Though we find that Moshe was obligated to show הכרת הטוב to the Nile & earth, that is pretty clearly an inwardly directed מדות issue (no?). Why would lashon hara against a land (even Eretz Yisrael) be so terrible, if LH were primarily a bein adam l'chaveiro issue? Perhaps Rabbi Zucker's approach makes it easier to understand.
Monday, October 26, 2009
de'oraita vs. de'Rabbanan
As for my question: Over the summer and in school, I encountered the idea of mitzvot being di'oraita or d'rabanan many times. On the one hand, we see mitvot d'rabanan as very important commandments, and some even go as far as to say that they are considered d'oraita based on a pasuk in Devarim, about listening to the words of the rabbis. On the other hand, we see that there is a major discrepancy between d'oraita and d'rabanan when discussing the severity of the mitvot. It seems like we sometimes inply that breaking a mitzva d'rabanan isn't so bad. It is understood that we must keep the mitzvot, and they are still very important, but they seem almost second rate to d'oraita. How do we reconcile these two ideas about mizvot d'rabananan?-- -Penina Cohen
Hi Penina!
Rather than answer your question, I thought I would add more food for thought (or more confusion!) regarding the issue. On the one hand, it seems pretty clear, as you wrote, that de'oraitas take precedence over de'Rabbanans. After all, the former is from God Himself and the latter, "only" from the Rabbis. But on the other hand, consider the sugya that you may have learned back in 9th grade in Masechet Rosh HaShanah (29b) about what happens when RH falls on Shabbat (as it did this year) - Even though GOD gave us an explicit commandment to blow shofar on RH (without saying that Shabbat should be any different), the RABBIS decided that due to a concern that people might come to carry the shofar and thereby desecrate Shabbat, we should NOT fulfill our mitzvah de'oraita of blowing shofar on RH. The principle behind this is called yesh koach be'yad Chachamim la'akor davar min haTorah. It only applies in situations of shev v'al ta'aseh (the Rabbis can tell us to refrain from fulfilling a Torah obligation but cannot tell us to actively violate a lo ta'aseh), but still, the very fact that the Rabbis can essentially take precedence over the Torah in certain situations does raise exactly your question - what exactly is the relationship between de'oraitas and de'rabbanans? Interestingly, in the RH example, the Rabbis told us to refrain from fulfilling one de'oraita (shofar) only so as to protect another de'oraita (Shabbat); they did not simply decide to override a de'oraita for their own sake. But the fact that they have this power at all is still fascinating.
Another related issue: Did you ever learn the sugya of osek b'mitzvah patur min hamitzvah - if you're involved in performing one mitzvah, you're exempt from performing another? (We used to teach it in Ma'ayanot but then too many of the elementary schools started doing it.) Anyway, a really interesting question debated by Rishonim and Achronim is: what if the first mitzvah you're involved in is a mitzvah de'Rabbanan and then a mitzvah de'oraita comes along - Does your involvement in a de'Rabbanan exempt you from the de'oraita??? Hmmm....
Anyway, hope you're not too frustrated that my response contains more questions than answers but you raised an excellent and very complicated issue that doesn't have a simple, clear-cut, straight-forward answer. Keep thinking about it and let us know what you come up with!
Mrs. Dena Knoll
Sunday, October 25, 2009
Post-Wedding Thoughts
Schar Mitzvah B'hai Alma?
Before I sit down to do my homework, I usually check the blog, one of my favorite websites. Tonight, as I sat down to write a college essay, I decided to first check the blog. I am still not sure why I decided to do so considering I had checked it about 15 minutes earlier, but I did. To my surprise there were two new posts! I immediately read both and coincidentally (or not) Rabbi Lamm's derasha related perfectly to the college essay I was writing, and I was even able to reference a few ideas from it! I just wanted to say thank you!
Jordana Wietschner
Friday, October 23, 2009
Noach
- Here is a shiur by Rabbi Eytan Mayer (husband of our Israel liason, Mrs. Mayer) that came up in mishmar last night, about how the mabul was a reversal of the creation of the world. (If you're looking for someone to read regularly, he's a good choice.) I would add, the following: See Rashi ז:כג- ד"ה אך נח and note the supremacy of animal over man reversing the order (both in terms of creation chronology and G-d’s command) of day 6. If the world was created in progressing order of advancement, then the מבול reversed this process as well, with the waters of day 2 overpowering the vegetation of day 3, which at least survived. The constellations of day 4 survived the flood, but hibernated (רש"י ח:כב, ד"ה ויום). The sea creatures of day 5 outlived the animals of day 6 etc.
- This is a famous comedy routine from Bill Cosby on Noah. (if time is short, check out the shiur first.
- This morning, Rachel Friedman spoke about the interplay between Torah and science in the Parsha, specifically as related to the Ramban. Rabbi Yitzchak Etshalom discusses similar issues in his essay on Noach. Rabbi Jonathan Sacks (Chief Rabbi of England) looks at the this week's and last week's parsha through the prism of developmental psychology.
Have a great shabbos.
Thursday, October 22, 2009
Does the Torah Itself Speak Lashon Hara?
One possible answer (offered, on different occasions, by the aunt-and-niece team of Mrs. and Yael Herzog) is that God Himself gives the "heter" to speak the lashon hara by including the story in the Torah. Both Tzipi Shteingart and Mrs. Cohen suggested that just as speaking negatively about someone is permissible "le-to'elet,"(for a halakhically permitted purpose, such as to protect someone from financial loss) the stories of our founders' sins are included "le-to'elet" - so that we may learn from them. Indeed, Mrs. Kraft pointed out, it puts the responsiblity on us to make sure that we study these stories with that goal in mind, to ask ourselves: what genuinely applicable lesson can we take from this?
Mrs. Herzog also cited the Kuzari - what other religion dares to be so open about the flaws of its founders and leaders? Just as the greatest people in our history made mistakes yet were able to overcome them and develop a relationship with Hashem, so may we strive to do the same.
Tuesday, October 20, 2009
Kiddush / Chillul Hashem
Monday, October 19, 2009
Christian Yichud
Billy Graham had a rule. He was a powerful man, away from his
wife and
children more often than he was with them. Aware of the
significance of his
reputation and convinced of the moral value of the
Gospel message, he took
precautions to guard against his own human weakness.
He gave his ministry
colleagues explicit instructions: never leave me alone
in a room with a
woman who is not my wife.
Friday, October 2, 2009
Sukkot
- First, YU's Sukkot To Go, the publication that you've heard so much about. Again, this issue is highlighted by an article by our own Mrs. Knoll.
- Also, you can check the various sites on the side of this blog, most of which have their own divrei Torah about Sukkot.
- Here is a very brief overview of many of the laws of Sukkot, produced by Nishmat (which reminds me - Aviva, what did your rebbeim say about the 2nd day of Yom Tov - see below).
- Finally, equally important, but not as often studied, here is an overview of the rules of Chol Hamoed.
I hope these are useful and enjoyable (supplementing your learning of Maayanei Torah, of course). Everyone have a great Yom Tov.
Thursday, October 1, 2009
Vegetarianism and Shabbat/Yom Tov
Thanks!
~Aliza Gottlieb
Dear Aliza,
First, I must commend you on your general approach. Many people are committed to halacha, and many are committed to broader values such as vegetarianism, but far less people struggle to strike the balance between them. I also commend your ultimate decision to choose halacha over vegetarianism, if necessary.
In terms of your particular question, poskim are divided as to whether or not there is an obligation to eat meat on Shabbat and Yom Tov. The more common view is that there is no obligation to eat meat on Shabbat, although some require it. The question of meat on yom tov remains hotly debated (see the Gemara Pesachim 108b, Rambam Hilchot Yom Tov 6:18, Beit Yosef Orach Chaim 529; those sources and others can be found here: http://www.yutorah.org/_shiurim/Simchat%20Yom%20Tov.html). My personal view is that the simple understanding of the Gemara and Shulchan Aruch is that there is no obligation to eat meat on Shabbat or Yom Tov, but others disagree. So your best bet might be to ask a rabbi to whom you generally ask halachik questions.
Best,
Rabbi Sinensky