To follow up on the miracles discussion, I am really starting to like Jordana's theory. It really explains the pattern of ניסים in the Torah that I had found so puzzling. In ספר בראשית, where Hashem was dealing with a small group of extraordinary tzadikim, miracles were, with very few exceptions, unnecessary. The only one's who needed proof of His presence in the world were the supporting characters (Lot, Paroh, Avimelech etc.). Once you get to ספר שמות, and Hashem is dealing with two audiences who need to "know" him (the Jews and Egyptians), the miracles become more and more apparent, first punitively to Mitzrayim, then mercifully to the Jews in the desert (מן, water from the rock, עמלק etc.). Yasher koach Jordana, (and Ramban).
I had been thinking more simply, that perhaps the transformation of אשת לוט into salt was less miraculous then it seems. At the end of his commentary on the subject, the Ramban quotes an opinion that she turned around and saw Hashem's שכינה (as it were), the natural consequence of which is her physical disintegration. Mrs. Cohen mentioned that there is a ראשון (I think - I don't remember who it was), who said something similar, but different in a significant way. I'll try to find out the details.
Wednesday, November 18, 2009
Monday, November 16, 2009
More on Slavery
I wanted to expand on the ideas mentioned by Rabbi Besser in his post. Though I also can't claim to know what will happen in Yemot HaMashiach, I would find it very hard to believe that people will have slaves at that point in history. It seems that although the Torah does have laws concerning slavery; these laws are to limit and control slavery, not to advocate it לכתחילה. The Rambam (Hilkhot Avadim 8:9) states that although technically one can work a slave harshly, it is incorrect to do so, and one must treat a slave as a respected employee (one cannot yell at a slave, nor denigrate him, you must feed him before you feed yourself....). The Rambam concludes his comments by saying how as descendants of Avraham, we are commanded to show traits of kindness and רחמים, which do not come hand in hand with owning a slave!
Although laws controlling slavery might have been necessary for the Torah to assign (since it did exist as an institution for thousands of years - and still unfortunately exists in some countries), this doesn't mean that one must put these laws into practice in what will hopefully be an enlightened, modern age of Yemot HaMashiakh. This is similar to the laws of אשת יפת תואר- the institution exists if you need it, but there's no מצוה to initiate the process. Additionally, there seems to be a clear anti-slavery ethic being expressed in the Torah; both with the value of צלם אלוקים, and with the fact that one of the most pivotal events experienced by the Jewish people was that of being freed from the existence of slavery - יציאת מצרים. Especially with the fact that in most "first world" countries, slavery has been abolished, it seems that mankind has progressed to thankfully now view slavery as a terrible injustice.
Finally, I wanted to share an excerpt from a Dvar Torah that the Chief Rabbi of England, Rabbi Jonathan Sacks writes on this subject (found here), stating that perhaps the Torah's objective was to lead us to choose to abandon slavery of our own accord, due to viewing it as morally wrong, and not abandoning it simply because the Torah forbade it. Interesting stuff.
"...Yet the Torah does not abolish slavery. That is the paradox at the heart of Behar. To be sure it was limited and humanized. Every seventh day, slaves were granted rest and a taste of freedom. In the seventh year Israelite slaves were set free... During their years of service they were to be treated like employees. They were not to be subjected to back-breaking or spirit-crushing labour. Everything dehumanizing about slavery was forbidden. Yet slavery itself was not banned. Why not? If it was wrong, it should have been annulled. Why did the Torah allow a fundamentally flawed institution to continue?....."
"...G-d wanted mankind to abolish slavery but by their own choice, and that takes time. Ancient economies were dependent on slavery... Slavery as such was not abolished in Britain and America until the nineteenth century, and in America not without a civil war. The challenge to which Torah legislation was an answer is: how can one create a social structure in which, of their own accord, people will eventually come to see slavery as wrong and freely choose to abandon it? ....The Torah did not abolish slavery but it set in motion a process that would lead people to come of their own accord to the conclusion that it was wrong. How it did so is one of the wonders of history."
Although laws controlling slavery might have been necessary for the Torah to assign (since it did exist as an institution for thousands of years - and still unfortunately exists in some countries), this doesn't mean that one must put these laws into practice in what will hopefully be an enlightened, modern age of Yemot HaMashiakh. This is similar to the laws of אשת יפת תואר- the institution exists if you need it, but there's no מצוה to initiate the process. Additionally, there seems to be a clear anti-slavery ethic being expressed in the Torah; both with the value of צלם אלוקים, and with the fact that one of the most pivotal events experienced by the Jewish people was that of being freed from the existence of slavery - יציאת מצרים. Especially with the fact that in most "first world" countries, slavery has been abolished, it seems that mankind has progressed to thankfully now view slavery as a terrible injustice.
Finally, I wanted to share an excerpt from a Dvar Torah that the Chief Rabbi of England, Rabbi Jonathan Sacks writes on this subject (found here), stating that perhaps the Torah's objective was to lead us to choose to abandon slavery of our own accord, due to viewing it as morally wrong, and not abandoning it simply because the Torah forbade it. Interesting stuff.
"...Yet the Torah does not abolish slavery. That is the paradox at the heart of Behar. To be sure it was limited and humanized. Every seventh day, slaves were granted rest and a taste of freedom. In the seventh year Israelite slaves were set free... During their years of service they were to be treated like employees. They were not to be subjected to back-breaking or spirit-crushing labour. Everything dehumanizing about slavery was forbidden. Yet slavery itself was not banned. Why not? If it was wrong, it should have been annulled. Why did the Torah allow a fundamentally flawed institution to continue?....."
"...G-d wanted mankind to abolish slavery but by their own choice, and that takes time. Ancient economies were dependent on slavery... Slavery as such was not abolished in Britain and America until the nineteenth century, and in America not without a civil war. The challenge to which Torah legislation was an answer is: how can one create a social structure in which, of their own accord, people will eventually come to see slavery as wrong and freely choose to abandon it? ....The Torah did not abolish slavery but it set in motion a process that would lead people to come of their own accord to the conclusion that it was wrong. How it did so is one of the wonders of history."
Slavery & Mashiach
Tziporah Leiser asks:
If the torah speaks about laws for freeing slaves, does that mean that when mashiach comes we will have slaves again?
Great question. The short answer is I don't think so, but I can't claim to know for sure. When it comes to the yemot hamashiach, all we really have to work with are the predictions, mostly from the Rishonim. I don't claim to be a Jewish philosophy expert, so perhaps someone else will supplement this post. I would like to start the conversation by referring you to two responses that were posted last year here and here that are relevant to your question.
If the torah speaks about laws for freeing slaves, does that mean that when mashiach comes we will have slaves again?
Great question. The short answer is I don't think so, but I can't claim to know for sure. When it comes to the yemot hamashiach, all we really have to work with are the predictions, mostly from the Rishonim. I don't claim to be a Jewish philosophy expert, so perhaps someone else will supplement this post. I would like to start the conversation by referring you to two responses that were posted last year here and here that are relevant to your question.
Thursday, November 12, 2009
Response to Miracles in פרשת וירא
An interesting theory from Jordana Wietschner:
Maybe the reason Hashem answered Lot's prayers and not Avraham's was because Hashem was afraid that if He didn't answer Lot, Lot would stop believing in Him. This was certainly not the case with Avraham because Hashem knew Avraham would continue to believe in Him no matter what and would recognize that although Hashem did not comply with this one request, He was still there.
Perhaps Hashem wanted to keep Lot's support
1- so Avraham would have a family and mortal support system, or
2- I would like to think that anyone who believes in Hashem, especially at that time, and was around Avraham, also believes in certain values like chessed.
Even if Lot wasn't a vital player in the continuity of Bnei Yisrael or spreading monotheism, he might still be able to influence those around him with the positive values he picked up from Avraham. He definitely wasn't as good as Avraham at practicing these values, but he was probably better than a lot of the people who lived at this time. Even though Lot couldn't get people to believe in Hashem, he might have somehow impacted the people around him to become better or at least realize there was such a value as chessed, which is also an important role.
I think this logic can be expanded to the second point as well. According to the Ramban, the objective of miracles is to prove to man that Hashem is present in this world. He also believes that everything that happens in this world is a miracle, and it is our job to see that. If this is true, the avot didn't need miracles! They knew Hashem was here and were able to see him in their everyday lives. Lot, on the other hand, was not at the same level as the avot. If Hashem didn't show Lot that He was here and controlling this world, maybe Lot would have stopped believing in Him. Especially at this point in Lot's life, when he might be tempted to stop believing in God, did God have to reveal Himself in a miracle to Lot so he would recognize God and continue believing in His existence. Throughout the rest of Bereshit, Hashem's people were able to recognize His presence in this world without any "miracles". They were able to recognize that everything was a miracle and an act of God. Not until later in Shemot, after Beni Yisrael were in Egypt for a long time, and did not see God as clearly anymore, did He have to reveal Himself to them in a miracle.
More on Tehillim vs. Tefillah
I just wanted to add a quick thought to Mrs. Billet's post. I think that if the "Tehillim model" of focusing on something specific during the recitation of a brief text works for us, maybe that's something we can transplant into other parts of davening as well. For example, what about taking a bracha of birkat hashachar or shmoneh esreh and planning to think of something specific for one of those as well?
Tehillim vs. Tefilla
I often find that in Ma'ayanot davening, students (including myself) will be talking with their neighbors, taking naps, study for tests, etc. During Tehillim at the end of davening, however, all of a sudden everybody gives the utmost respect towards the prayers. Mrs. Billet often even makes a special announcement to remind everyone to have special respect for these Tehillim-type prayers. So, whats the deal with this? Is Tehillim more important than actual tefillah? Why does everyone make the biggest deal out of Tehillim? I don't deny its general importance, but it's not even part of our mandatory prayers. I'm confused.
-Rikki Novetsky
A: In all my encounters with people of all ages who have trouble with focusing on Tefila, I have found that what they do connect to is davening for people. I have found in my own davening that when I focus on specific needs of others, I feel that my prayers are stronger, less given to rote, and more likely to “rise to the kiseh hakavod”, so to speak. I keep lists (hence the imitations of me at Shabbatons carrying a siddur overflowing with papers) of people who need a refuah shelaimah, singles who need to find a marriage partner, couples who need to conceive a child, families who need parnasah, who need help with a wayward child, and more, because I feel having this focus (actually throughout my tefila) gives my tefilot a sense of purpose and direction. I also have observed that when it is pointed out to them, people are more willing and find it easier to focus briefly on these Tehillim and supplications (as opposed to asking them to focus on the whole long shacharit), so at least a few minutes of the time allocated for tefila can be spent meaningfully. In the same vein, I find that when it is pointed out to people that we do so little for chayalei tzahal except pray for them, those people who are being appealed to actually take it to heart, stand for the tefila for chayalei tzahal and for the tefila for shlom hamedinah, and concentrate for the minute or two that it takes. Suggesting to people that they concentrate during the whole amidah, or say the whole kri’at shema carefully and with kavanah the way it is supposed to be said falls on deaf ears because it is too huge a project and too multi-focused for the indifferent davener to feel that this is a goal she can undertake and succeed at.
Although I clearly feel that it is important and it is the halakha to say the whole tefila each day, Rambam and others tell us that the d’oraitah commandment of tefila can be fulfilled simply by saying a few words of praise, thanks and request in our own words. Simply put, if you were to say “G-d you are my best friend, thanks for the gifts you’ve given me and please help me get through this day” you have fulfilled the minimal Torah obligation of Avodah shebalev. When we say Tehillim for a sick person, we are actually saying words of praise in the text of the Tehillim itself (lehallel means praise!), we surely are making a request for a refuah shelaimah for the sick person(s) and inevitably, we are reflective about thanking G-d for our own good health, or that of our family as we contrast our own ability to pray for someone else with the neediness of the person(s) we are praying for. So I emphasize saying the Tehillim at school because in my feelings of “kol Yisrael areivim zeh” I am happy if even for those few short minutes, the whole tzibbur stands together as one voice and appeals to Hashem for the real people in our lives who need His help and who need our compassion, caring and understanding, and who need the tefilot we are prepared to offer on their behalf.
As a strong believer in acharei hape’ulot nimshachim halevavot, that our hearts can be led and transformed by our actions, I truly think that by sharing the religious experience each day of praying for the health of others, we experience a taste of davening that may actually encourage our hearts to feel that tefila is a more compelling experience than we otherwise thought. I know that when I have attended Tehillim “rallies” in my shul when a member of the community is gravely ill, it is an exceptional experience to stand several hundred strong and focused on a refuah shelaima for the person.
So Tehillim is clearly not more important than tefila. Tehillim share characteristics with many parts of tefila, but tefila, particularly the amidah, is also different from Tehillim. Certainly, Tehillim is an important source for so many of the passages that constitute the praise portions are incorporated into tefila. What you have read above is my personal common sense reasoning for emphasizing Tehillim in the hope that a few minutes will be devoted to tefila by all, and in the sincere desire to try to help others through out prayers when this is the only way we have to demonstrate our caring, our solidarity, our love and our compassion for others.
-Rikki Novetsky
A: In all my encounters with people of all ages who have trouble with focusing on Tefila, I have found that what they do connect to is davening for people. I have found in my own davening that when I focus on specific needs of others, I feel that my prayers are stronger, less given to rote, and more likely to “rise to the kiseh hakavod”, so to speak. I keep lists (hence the imitations of me at Shabbatons carrying a siddur overflowing with papers) of people who need a refuah shelaimah, singles who need to find a marriage partner, couples who need to conceive a child, families who need parnasah, who need help with a wayward child, and more, because I feel having this focus (actually throughout my tefila) gives my tefilot a sense of purpose and direction. I also have observed that when it is pointed out to them, people are more willing and find it easier to focus briefly on these Tehillim and supplications (as opposed to asking them to focus on the whole long shacharit), so at least a few minutes of the time allocated for tefila can be spent meaningfully. In the same vein, I find that when it is pointed out to people that we do so little for chayalei tzahal except pray for them, those people who are being appealed to actually take it to heart, stand for the tefila for chayalei tzahal and for the tefila for shlom hamedinah, and concentrate for the minute or two that it takes. Suggesting to people that they concentrate during the whole amidah, or say the whole kri’at shema carefully and with kavanah the way it is supposed to be said falls on deaf ears because it is too huge a project and too multi-focused for the indifferent davener to feel that this is a goal she can undertake and succeed at.
Although I clearly feel that it is important and it is the halakha to say the whole tefila each day, Rambam and others tell us that the d’oraitah commandment of tefila can be fulfilled simply by saying a few words of praise, thanks and request in our own words. Simply put, if you were to say “G-d you are my best friend, thanks for the gifts you’ve given me and please help me get through this day” you have fulfilled the minimal Torah obligation of Avodah shebalev. When we say Tehillim for a sick person, we are actually saying words of praise in the text of the Tehillim itself (lehallel means praise!), we surely are making a request for a refuah shelaimah for the sick person(s) and inevitably, we are reflective about thanking G-d for our own good health, or that of our family as we contrast our own ability to pray for someone else with the neediness of the person(s) we are praying for. So I emphasize saying the Tehillim at school because in my feelings of “kol Yisrael areivim zeh” I am happy if even for those few short minutes, the whole tzibbur stands together as one voice and appeals to Hashem for the real people in our lives who need His help and who need our compassion, caring and understanding, and who need the tefilot we are prepared to offer on their behalf.
As a strong believer in acharei hape’ulot nimshachim halevavot, that our hearts can be led and transformed by our actions, I truly think that by sharing the religious experience each day of praying for the health of others, we experience a taste of davening that may actually encourage our hearts to feel that tefila is a more compelling experience than we otherwise thought. I know that when I have attended Tehillim “rallies” in my shul when a member of the community is gravely ill, it is an exceptional experience to stand several hundred strong and focused on a refuah shelaima for the person.
So Tehillim is clearly not more important than tefila. Tehillim share characteristics with many parts of tefila, but tefila, particularly the amidah, is also different from Tehillim. Certainly, Tehillim is an important source for so many of the passages that constitute the praise portions are incorporated into tefila. What you have read above is my personal common sense reasoning for emphasizing Tehillim in the hope that a few minutes will be devoted to tefila by all, and in the sincere desire to try to help others through out prayers when this is the only way we have to demonstrate our caring, our solidarity, our love and our compassion for others.
Wednesday, November 11, 2009
Friday Night Tish
As you all know, at 8:00 this Friday night we are having the first Maayanot Tish at the Friedman (Aliza) home. There is a wonderful program scheduled, and you don't want to miss it. In fact, those of you who don't live in Teaneck, might want to try to go to a friend for Shabbos. I think you'll have a great time, and as a bonus you have a chavruta to help study for Monday's Gemara exams. 
In case some of you are still thinking about it, here are some photos of students having a blast at the Simchat Beit Hashoeva. Ask them if you should come.Tuesday, November 10, 2009
Reflections on וירא
Two quick points:
- It is remarkable, that after Avraham's extended negotiation to save Sodom, or even one of the five doomed cities (see Rashi), his pleas are rejected. And yet, Lot whose every move is a negative converse to Avraham is granted this very same request at the end of the story! When fleeing the destruction, he asks to take refuge in צוער, one of the cities that had been destined for destruction, and he is granted permission. Last year, many of us learned that even according to the opinions that daily תפילה is only rabbinically mandated, תפילה בעת צרה, prayer in a time of crisis is מדאורייתא. I think this episode is a testament to the power of such a תפילה, and of desperation as a tool in our prayer arsenal.
- I was shocked to notice this year for the first time, that in the entire ספר בראשית, the biggest miracle might be the demise of Lot's wife. What a bizarre choice. Throughout the story of the אבות, and then the שבטים, Hashem pretty much stays on the sidelines (at least as reported directly in the pesukim), and the one instance that he chooses to really overrule the laws of nature are to punish a character supporting a supporting character? I have a theory, but I wonder what you all think. I often hear students & teachers of the 11th grade Jewish Philosophy course (wish I had one when I was in high school) discussing the unit on miracles, but I never actually heard what is taught. Maybe someone from there can help with this. Until the מן, I think every miracle in the תורה is punitive. Is there something we should learn from that?
One More on Ms. Gordon's Post
I just wanted to clarify something that I think might be unclear from her post. There is a fallacy out there that I noticed when marking my halacha tests that is relevant here. In response to a question asking them to practically rule on different scenarios, a number of students wrote "one opinion said it's OK, & one says it's prohibited - so it's OK". Modern Orthodoxy doesn't mean that as long there is an opinion that permits something, that is who we follow. When Ms. Gordon traced her position as relying on multiple minority opinions, she did not mean (we talked) that she just went "kula shopping", found the most lenient opinion on every issue and adopted it. She followed the proper protocol, which is the following:
Everyone should have a halachik (or at least a Torah) authority to whom they direct their significant halachik questions, and their practice should be based on those conversations. For those of you who don't yet have this figure in your life - most of you - the default posek should be your parents' posek, probably your shul Rabbi. Once you follow this procedure, there is nothing wrong with responsibly choosing a posek who tends to be lenient in most areas, just realize that he may one day surprise you.
If you are uncomfortable approaching your Rabbi, the best thing to do is get past the discomfort. Those of you who have been in my halacha class have hopefully started this process - those who I teach currently hopefully will soon. In the meantime, it's certainly OK to talk to your teachers about these issues, and if you want, to ask us to check with our halachik authorities.
Everyone should have a halachik (or at least a Torah) authority to whom they direct their significant halachik questions, and their practice should be based on those conversations. For those of you who don't yet have this figure in your life - most of you - the default posek should be your parents' posek, probably your shul Rabbi. Once you follow this procedure, there is nothing wrong with responsibly choosing a posek who tends to be lenient in most areas, just realize that he may one day surprise you.
If you are uncomfortable approaching your Rabbi, the best thing to do is get past the discomfort. Those of you who have been in my halacha class have hopefully started this process - those who I teach currently hopefully will soon. In the meantime, it's certainly OK to talk to your teachers about these issues, and if you want, to ask us to check with our halachik authorities.
Monday, November 9, 2009
Another thought on tzniut
I would like to add one idea to Ms. Gordon’s post in response to Rikki’s question. It is certainly true, as Rikki points out, that societal standards of modesty change over time, and I also agree that it is possible to preserve the general value of modesty even without adhering to a strictly halakhic dress code. However, I think that religion often operates by creating objective standards to concretize and impart a subjective value. For example, we all know that matza must be baked within 18 minutes or it becomes chametz. I sometimes wonder if all of the matza that Bnei Yisrael ate after yetziat Mitzrayim was actually baked within 18 minutes. But the point is that, whether or not all of the matza at yetziat Mitzrayim was baked within 18 minutes, our matza must be baked within that time frame because we must have an objective standard for what constitutes matza or else we would lose the concept of matza altogether. A fundamental premise of halakha is that religious values and concepts are best inculcated through adherence to a legal code, rather than remaining as amorphous values and concepts. Similarly, the halakha creates objective standards for tzniut in order to make sure that the value of modesty is real and tangible in our lives.
Sunday, November 8, 2009
Another Response to Tzniut
First, yasher koach to Rikki for raising some excellent questions about tzniut and for pointing out important issues that should be discussed. I wanted to respond to Rikki's points and share my approach to this issue. It is true that modern society’s standards of modesty have changed drastically from what is reflected in the poskim. In line with that change there are sources (admittedly, in the minority) that DO reflect a more open and lenient standard of dress then the standard sources, that many halakhically committed Jews (myself included) do rely on.
For example, both Rav Ellinson in his book “HaTzneh Lechet” and Rav Henkin in his book “Understanding Tzniut” (both of which I highly recommend) show how most poskim interpret the Gemara in Brachot 24a to allow a woman to show up to a tefach of a normally covered area (which, on page 37, Rav Ellinson estimates at 9 cm for above the elbow). Rav Henkin also states that according to different estimates of how much a tefach is, today there is probably no problem with most women’s necklines (page 17). Additionally, the Divrei Hamudot on the Rosh (Berakhot 3:37) states that women’s upper arms are considered like her “face, hands and feet” which are never covered, and one can rely on local custom to determine whether or not one exposes them, as long as the majority of the arm is covered (see also pages 22-25 in Rav Henkin's book).
We know that minhag hamakom plays a role in determining what the standards of tzniut are for a community. It's used l'chumra, for example, some poskim say if one decides to live in a community where woman wear tights because they hold covering the “shok” extends to the ankle, one would also have to keep this stringency. It's also used l'kulah, for example, the Arukh HaShulkhan (OC 75:7) allowed men to pray opposite women with uncovered hair (though stating it was a very bedi’eved situation) since men were so used to seeing women’s hair, there was no longer a problem of hirhur/distraction. Although the Arukh HaShukhan is decrying this practice, we see from this precedent that standards of modesty do change over time. This principle of changing standards of tzniut can be used to support following a minority view of not covering one's elbows.
BUT, I don’t think this idea can be applied more broadly to include, as you suggested, tank tops or skinny jeans. Yes, society’s standards of tzniut have become a lot more open, but this does not mean that we accept every societal change especially when it comes to tzniut. Firstly, in the Halakhic sources, no poskim allow people to show areas of the body that are normally covered and all maintain that there is an objective standard of “hirhur” that does not change over time. Halakahic literature aside, I think we need to think long and hard about the values being reflected by a society that sets no limits on dress and allows people to wear as little as they like. Yes, “a woman’s body is her own”, but is that really the statement she is making when she walks around half dressed?
Like it or not, I think that certain parts of a woman’s body are objectively more alluring than others and need to be covered in order to create a society based on kedusha, where women are seen as more then bodies and where there isn’t an overt environment of sexual inappropriateness. Without it, as much as one can try to convince oneself that today it’s different and tank tops and short shorts are normal by today’s “tzniut standards”, in a co-ed crowd, this will undoubtedly change the appropriateness level of the group (Yes, this does have to do with men’s reactions, but that’s how women’s bodies are made. Additionally, women often dress a certain way knowing the attention it attracts).
Which bring me to my take on tzniut. Personally, the “saving yourself for your husband” argument doesn’t really speak to me. My attitude towards tzniut stems largely from my Bnei Akiva upbringing, which taught me to believe very strongly in the positive aspects of a co-ed halakhic environment (another minority view). There’s a lot to be learned from the other 50% of the population and a co-ed community (or camp) can be a very powerful resource for Am Israel. Halakhic boundaries are there not for us to lock ourselves away from situations that can be halakhically “dangerous”, but for us to know exactly how to conduct ourselves in order to succeed in them. These boundaries include negiah, yichud, and of course, tzniut.
One of our goals as Torah observant Jews is to create communities based on kedusha; where people act in a halakhically appropriate way and where sex isn’t demeaned in how people talk, joke or make comments about each other. This is very difficult to maintain even in a post-year-in-Israel co-ed society, kal vachomer with teenagers (no offense). Tzniut and our standards of dress are imperative to maintaining this atmosphere of kedusha. While I don’t think shorter sleeves are a problem, showing off more objectively alluring body parts would be counter productive to this goal, no matter what goes on in outside society. Imagine Mach Hach if everyone were in tank tops and shorts – it’s hard enough to have an appropriate avirah even with the dress code! I think there is objective tzniut that does not change with time, and it isn’t about saving yourself for your husband, it’s about creating an environment of kedusha, especially in a co-ed environment, to ensure women are being seen and treated as people and not as just as bodies, and where the environment reflects kedusha and holiness and not inappropriate behavior and lewd language.
However, as stated above, the standards of tzniut can be expanded within halakhic guidelines to include a more lenient approach of dress that in my opinion in no way compromises the kedusha of the environments we live in or are trying to create. This is also since (as has been expanded in other posts) the way we dress is only one part of what acting tzanua mandates – it is also how we talk, how we carry ourselves, and our general affect, not just our sleeve lengths, skirt lengths and necklines.
Student Feedback on Tzniut
I definitely see a value in all the responses that people have written about the tzniut issue, but I still have one major problem. Some of the reasons that people have posted for dressing with tzniut include include saving your body for your husband, and not being seen by the opposite sex as just an object. While these answers do seem to be correct, the standards of what society sees as "modest apparel" has drastically changed from the times of the poskim. It seems to me that all of these SAME goals of tzniut can be achieved through wearing slightly less than what the posekim have decided is modest. For instance, nowadays in our society, wearing a short sleeved shirt during the summer may seem very modest in comparison to the majority of women who wear tank-tops. Or, an even better example, a pair of professional slacks on a woman may be perceived not only as modest, but as a very respectable choice for a professional woman to wear. (Perhaps the same logic for a pair of skinny jeans may be difficult to justify, but still -- what if skinny jeans can somehow fit with this logic? What about a loose tank top?)
I think one of the beautiful things about Modern Orthodoxy is that we try not to take on unnecessary chumrot, or stringencies. I have been brought up to believe that following halacha is of the utmost importance, but taking on extra stringencies is unnecessary, and perhaps even a sign of not being a fully educated Jew who is aware of the REAL halachik guidelines.
In short, why have the laws of tzniut not changed with time, when we can achieve the SAME EXACT goals with more lenient guidelines?
- Rikki Novetsky
I think one of the beautiful things about Modern Orthodoxy is that we try not to take on unnecessary chumrot, or stringencies. I have been brought up to believe that following halacha is of the utmost importance, but taking on extra stringencies is unnecessary, and perhaps even a sign of not being a fully educated Jew who is aware of the REAL halachik guidelines.
In short, why have the laws of tzniut not changed with time, when we can achieve the SAME EXACT goals with more lenient guidelines?
- Rikki Novetsky
Saturday, November 7, 2009
Back to College
A couple of points from the only person in the discussion who couldn't have gotten into Stern:
- As much as we're focusing on the Stern/Ivy dilemma, at least as important is the decision to be made much more frequently is between Stern & other schools - Rutgers, Queens, NYU etc. Much of the conversation applies, but not all of it. And while I can understand why a student might choose not to go to Stern in favor of one of these other schools, I can think of few situations where and often a determining factor is...
- Money - to me the best reason to go to neither Stern or the Ivies. We say that you can't put a price on a great education, but I think that is not literal. If your parents are paying for it, then they have even more of a voice in your decision, and if they aren't picking up the tab, then unless you have significant scholarship money coming in, you're talking about a lot of student loans which will have a real impact on your future decisions, especially if you follow it up with graduate school.
- As to the conversation itself, I'll share my experience. I was in YU for college, and then was in an Ivy law school, and in comparing the smartest, most talented & dedicated people in my classes, there was certainly no drop off - the cream of YU's crop was every bit the match for my law school peers; if anything the contrary. Where I did feel the difference was with the rest of the class. While YU had a wide range of students academically, motivationally etc., everyone in law school was there for a reason. I assume this is true in the undergraduate schools as well.
- I'm glad to hear that the Columbia campus life for Orthodox Jews is as strong as it sounds. When I was there, I was not as impressed (- Disclaimer: I never lived on campus). I found a lot of religious drifting, with everyone going to Wednesday night learning & 4:20 Mincha, and convincing themselves and each other that they were not actually slipping religiously, but I'm not sure it was true. Especially on the campuses with the bigger communities, there is more support if the campus is spiritually vibrant, but also more support for a gradual decline if everyone else is doing it. Advance research on this front is crucial for a responsible decision.
- Finally, as I read through the posts, and kept seeing people talking about how you "have to know yourself", and whether you are the kind of person who can be self-motivated and thrive in a challenging environment. This is a lot harder than it sounds. I think you need to know yourself in terms of what else you want and need to get out of college, and then factor the potential gains and dangers of the various Jewish communities, but as Ms. Appel pointed out, looking to grow religiously by intentionally putting yourself in a challenging religious environment, on the theory that "whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger" seems like a bad idea.
How We Can Bring Moshiach...
There is a Gemara in Masechet Megillah that I always wondered about. The Gemara says: Anyone who says something in the author's name will bring redemption to the world. It seems strange! Is that all we need to do to bring Moshiach?? If that's the case, then what are we waiting for? We should all just start saying divrei Torah from other people and quoting them!
I was thinking about this Gemara, and in preparing it for my 10th grade Gemara class for the 5th (!) time, think that I finally understand it!
What is the character trait that underlies quoting something that I heard from someone else? The trait of humility--realizing that I am not the best, the smartest, the ____est. It is the recognition that I am not the center of the world, and that there are others that are greater than me. Only a person who is willing to admit this to him/herself is able to quote a good idea in the author's name.
How is this connected to the coming of Moshiach?
As we mention in Alenu 3 times a day, the coming of Moshiach is a time when all people will acknowledge the greatness of God. A person who is able to quote an idea in the author's name-- a person who has recognized that there is someone greater than him/her--has proven that he/she is ready for the time of Moshiach which is characterized by the recognition of the Glory of Hashem, the Greatest Being in existence.
Based on this understanding of the Gemara, I would suggest that just quoting someone else's good idea is not sufficient to bring Moshiach. In fact, I'm not even sure that the Gemara means to say that this is the formula. Rather, it means to say that focusing on inculcating this trait of humility in ourselves is what will bring Moshiach. The gemara is highlighting the fact that we need to use our actions and performance of mitzvoth to DEMONSTRATE that this is the type of people we are.
There are many mitzvoth in the Torah that follow this model. For example, kibbud av v'em. This mitzvah requires that we actively demonstrate that our parents are greater than us in certain respects, and therefore deserve our honor.
After thinking about this Gemara, I personally remembered something that I always knew but don't have on my radar screen enough. Namely, mitzvoth are not just these random actions that God asks us to do. Rather, they are also tools that God has given us as a gift to help us become a certain type of person.
I was thinking about this Gemara, and in preparing it for my 10th grade Gemara class for the 5th (!) time, think that I finally understand it!
What is the character trait that underlies quoting something that I heard from someone else? The trait of humility--realizing that I am not the best, the smartest, the ____est. It is the recognition that I am not the center of the world, and that there are others that are greater than me. Only a person who is willing to admit this to him/herself is able to quote a good idea in the author's name.
How is this connected to the coming of Moshiach?
As we mention in Alenu 3 times a day, the coming of Moshiach is a time when all people will acknowledge the greatness of God. A person who is able to quote an idea in the author's name-- a person who has recognized that there is someone greater than him/her--has proven that he/she is ready for the time of Moshiach which is characterized by the recognition of the Glory of Hashem, the Greatest Being in existence.
Based on this understanding of the Gemara, I would suggest that just quoting someone else's good idea is not sufficient to bring Moshiach. In fact, I'm not even sure that the Gemara means to say that this is the formula. Rather, it means to say that focusing on inculcating this trait of humility in ourselves is what will bring Moshiach. The gemara is highlighting the fact that we need to use our actions and performance of mitzvoth to DEMONSTRATE that this is the type of people we are.
There are many mitzvoth in the Torah that follow this model. For example, kibbud av v'em. This mitzvah requires that we actively demonstrate that our parents are greater than us in certain respects, and therefore deserve our honor.
After thinking about this Gemara, I personally remembered something that I always knew but don't have on my radar screen enough. Namely, mitzvoth are not just these random actions that God asks us to do. Rather, they are also tools that God has given us as a gift to help us become a certain type of person.
Thursday, November 5, 2009
Saying Retzeh after Nightfall
Rebecca Schenker asks:
If Shabbat ends before you bentch for "shalosh sedudot" is one still supposed to insert retzeh and ha-rachaman for Shabbat?
According to the Sefer Shemirat Shabbat ke-Hilchatah (chapter 57 paragraph 12), one should say retzeh even after Shabbat is over, unless one has said havdalah or davened ma'ariv during the meal. However, if one forgets retzeh after nightfall, one should not go back and repeat bentching, like one would be obligated to do on Shabbat. (Ha-rachaman is less chamor - missing it would not trigger an obligation to repeat bentching even on Shabbat itself). If one said "baruch ha-Mavdil bein kodesh le-chol" during the third meal, however, it is a machloket whether one should say retzeh.
If Shabbat ends before you bentch for "shalosh sedudot" is one still supposed to insert retzeh and ha-rachaman for Shabbat?
According to the Sefer Shemirat Shabbat ke-Hilchatah (chapter 57 paragraph 12), one should say retzeh even after Shabbat is over, unless one has said havdalah or davened ma'ariv during the meal. However, if one forgets retzeh after nightfall, one should not go back and repeat bentching, like one would be obligated to do on Shabbat. (Ha-rachaman is less chamor - missing it would not trigger an obligation to repeat bentching even on Shabbat itself). If one said "baruch ha-Mavdil bein kodesh le-chol" during the third meal, however, it is a machloket whether one should say retzeh.
Wednesday, November 4, 2009
Tzniut is about my relationship to HKBH
The question was asked: if the purpose of tzniut is to prevent men from getting "turned on", then why is it my problem? I would like to answer that question as well as to expand on Mrs. Knoll's perspective.
I view the body as both a gift from G-d and the constant reminder of G-d's miracles. The statistical likelihood of 4 amino acids combining to create a genome that is millions upon millions links long and that genome produces an individual human, is, to me, nothing short of G-d's handprint. The Torah tells us that we are created "in G-d's image". To me, that means with a soul, a spirit, an ability to think creatively and abstractly, the ability to control the environment around us and the ability to rule over ourselves. It also means we are, in a sense, a representation (tzelem) of the supernatural.
If we revere Hashem, then we need to revere the world that Hashem has created. That world includes physical beauty and desires. That world includes our bodies with all of their potential and their passions. If we honor Hashem, then we have to honor ourselves. And if we can love Hashem, then we must love ourselves.
The things that are most precious, most expensive or most rare, are things that are kept hidden, often under glass or lock and key. In the Mikdash, the holiest spot was the one that was most hidden--the Kodesh HaKodashim. In our world, things of extreme value are kept in vaults, museums, galleries, or behind very high fences. All of these things have very tight security. An actress doesn't wear the Harry Winston diamond necklace when she goes to the supermarket; she only wears it on special occasions. The original copy of the Declaration of Indepence (a "mere" piece of paper!) is one of the most guarded objects in Washington.
Our bodies are more precious than any document, jewel, artifact or celebrity. The need to keep it covered, the need to not flaunt it isn't just about men. It's about us, our relationship with ourselves and our relationship with Hashem. This miracle (think of someone you know who has a disability or think of a time when you were somewhat impaired by a bruise, a sore back, a toothache) of our bodies should never be overlooked or minimized. That's why we are commanded to treat it with the same respect we give anything that is valuable.
NONE OF THIS MEANS WE SHOULD WEAR BURKAS. There is a difference between attractive and attracting and we all know it. There is a mitzva to enhance Hashem's world and not make it ugly. But is revealing beautiful or is it just shocking or alluring? What are we saying about ourselves when we "let it (all) hang out"" We cheapen ourselves. We make ourselves open to everyone.
There is one more thing. We are part of a community. It's NOT all about me. If I want respect, then I have to respect others. If I am walking next to someone who is on crutches, it would be pretty rude and selfish of me to run ahead. Tzniut is a similar concept. If I know someone has a weakness, it would be selfish of me to tease or play on that weakness, especially if it's only for my satisfaction or to please some arbitrary "fashion god". So if we know that men are vulnerable to our looks and "sexy" clothing (how much advertising of things like cars and electronics is done with beautiful and sexily-dressed women?), why play on that? Why make it harder for them?
And ultimately, we make it harder for us--the more we accentuate our bodies, the more we are seen as just that--bodies. Not souls, not minds, not hearts, not dreams, not talents. Just bodies.
Is that what we want?
I'm NOT saying that observing tzniut isn't challenging. I'm NOT saying don't dress beautifully, stylishly, or in a way that makes you feel good about yourself. I AM saying that what you wear is not only about you. It's about you AND Hashem AND the community. (My students know that that triangle is really important to me.)
So yes, it is to "protect" the men from their desires. But tzniut is also to protect US as women from being viewed simply as sex objects. It keeps us conscious (whether we want to be or not) that we are in a relationship with other people and with HKBH. It reminds us that we are so very precious, such awe-inspiring miracles, such images of the Creator.
I view the body as both a gift from G-d and the constant reminder of G-d's miracles. The statistical likelihood of 4 amino acids combining to create a genome that is millions upon millions links long and that genome produces an individual human, is, to me, nothing short of G-d's handprint. The Torah tells us that we are created "in G-d's image". To me, that means with a soul, a spirit, an ability to think creatively and abstractly, the ability to control the environment around us and the ability to rule over ourselves. It also means we are, in a sense, a representation (tzelem) of the supernatural.
If we revere Hashem, then we need to revere the world that Hashem has created. That world includes physical beauty and desires. That world includes our bodies with all of their potential and their passions. If we honor Hashem, then we have to honor ourselves. And if we can love Hashem, then we must love ourselves.
The things that are most precious, most expensive or most rare, are things that are kept hidden, often under glass or lock and key. In the Mikdash, the holiest spot was the one that was most hidden--the Kodesh HaKodashim. In our world, things of extreme value are kept in vaults, museums, galleries, or behind very high fences. All of these things have very tight security. An actress doesn't wear the Harry Winston diamond necklace when she goes to the supermarket; she only wears it on special occasions. The original copy of the Declaration of Indepence (a "mere" piece of paper!) is one of the most guarded objects in Washington.
Our bodies are more precious than any document, jewel, artifact or celebrity. The need to keep it covered, the need to not flaunt it isn't just about men. It's about us, our relationship with ourselves and our relationship with Hashem. This miracle (think of someone you know who has a disability or think of a time when you were somewhat impaired by a bruise, a sore back, a toothache) of our bodies should never be overlooked or minimized. That's why we are commanded to treat it with the same respect we give anything that is valuable.
NONE OF THIS MEANS WE SHOULD WEAR BURKAS. There is a difference between attractive and attracting and we all know it. There is a mitzva to enhance Hashem's world and not make it ugly. But is revealing beautiful or is it just shocking or alluring? What are we saying about ourselves when we "let it (all) hang out"" We cheapen ourselves. We make ourselves open to everyone.
There is one more thing. We are part of a community. It's NOT all about me. If I want respect, then I have to respect others. If I am walking next to someone who is on crutches, it would be pretty rude and selfish of me to run ahead. Tzniut is a similar concept. If I know someone has a weakness, it would be selfish of me to tease or play on that weakness, especially if it's only for my satisfaction or to please some arbitrary "fashion god". So if we know that men are vulnerable to our looks and "sexy" clothing (how much advertising of things like cars and electronics is done with beautiful and sexily-dressed women?), why play on that? Why make it harder for them?
And ultimately, we make it harder for us--the more we accentuate our bodies, the more we are seen as just that--bodies. Not souls, not minds, not hearts, not dreams, not talents. Just bodies.
Is that what we want?
I'm NOT saying that observing tzniut isn't challenging. I'm NOT saying don't dress beautifully, stylishly, or in a way that makes you feel good about yourself. I AM saying that what you wear is not only about you. It's about you AND Hashem AND the community. (My students know that that triangle is really important to me.)
So yes, it is to "protect" the men from their desires. But tzniut is also to protect US as women from being viewed simply as sex objects. It keeps us conscious (whether we want to be or not) that we are in a relationship with other people and with HKBH. It reminds us that we are so very precious, such awe-inspiring miracles, such images of the Creator.
Washing over Pizza
What's the deal with washing or not washing for pizza?
Thanks,
Jordana Wietschner
Great question! This topic is dealt with in an article by Rabbi Jachter, found here and in another article by Rabbi Daniel Wolf found here.
To summarize some of Rabbi Jachter's main points, the debate over washing for pizza depends on whether you consider one slice of pizza a meal or a snack. If it's just a snack - then Rav Moshe Feinstein z"l (Igrot Moshe OC 3:32) states that you do not have to wash and the appropriate brakha would be Mezonot (based on the fact that pizza would be considered what the Gemara Brakhot 42a calls "pat haba'ah b'kisnin", for which one recites Mezonot). However, if you consider one slice of pizza a meal, then you should wash and recite Hamotzi. This latter view is the opinion of many contemporary poskim, among them Rav Ovadia Yosef as well as Rav Willig and Rav Schachter from YU. However, as I recall from the musical Halakha skits on this topic performed at Camp Stone, two slices of pizza would definitely be considered a meal and then one would be required to wash and say Hamotzi.
Additionally, even if you would usually consider one slice of pizza a snack, if you are being "kove'a seuda" on it and eating it as your lunch (and not just snacking on left over pizza swiped from the teacher's room during the afternoon), then I would think that also here you should wash and recite Hamotzi. Finally, it's interesting to note that the idea of how much pizza constitutes a snack or a meal can be very subjective; since one or two slices may be a meal for a regular person, but only be considered a snack for a hungry 15 year old boy. Happy eating!
Great question! This topic is dealt with in an article by Rabbi Jachter, found here and in another article by Rabbi Daniel Wolf found here.
To summarize some of Rabbi Jachter's main points, the debate over washing for pizza depends on whether you consider one slice of pizza a meal or a snack. If it's just a snack - then Rav Moshe Feinstein z"l (Igrot Moshe OC 3:32) states that you do not have to wash and the appropriate brakha would be Mezonot (based on the fact that pizza would be considered what the Gemara Brakhot 42a calls "pat haba'ah b'kisnin", for which one recites Mezonot). However, if you consider one slice of pizza a meal, then you should wash and recite Hamotzi. This latter view is the opinion of many contemporary poskim, among them Rav Ovadia Yosef as well as Rav Willig and Rav Schachter from YU. However, as I recall from the musical Halakha skits on this topic performed at Camp Stone, two slices of pizza would definitely be considered a meal and then one would be required to wash and say Hamotzi.
Additionally, even if you would usually consider one slice of pizza a snack, if you are being "kove'a seuda" on it and eating it as your lunch (and not just snacking on left over pizza swiped from the teacher's room during the afternoon), then I would think that also here you should wash and recite Hamotzi. Finally, it's interesting to note that the idea of how much pizza constitutes a snack or a meal can be very subjective; since one or two slices may be a meal for a regular person, but only be considered a snack for a hungry 15 year old boy. Happy eating!
Hodaya Jewelry
Daniella Ginsberg & Rebecca Schenker both (separately) ask:
What is the halacha of of bringing hodaya jewelry into the bathroom if it has a pasuk written on it?
Here is an article that discusses the issue and advises against wearing them, but gives guidelines for how to act if you do. I'm not sure that you need to go so far as to stop wearing them, as long as you are careful to act appropriately. I think you should read his analysis, but in short, since the necklace is not written as Torah normally is (on parchment etc.), and (as I understand it) the Shem Hashem is not written out fully, a single covering should be sufficient. Therefore, before entering the bathroom just be sure to slip the necklace under your shirt & it should be OK. Thanks for the important and practical question.
More Student Reaction to Tzniut
Hi again, When i saw the blog was talking about Tznius i had to respond...I too have gone through a transformation regarding my view toward tznius. Last year this time I was the one getting in trouble for dress code everyday. For me, Tznius was a non-issue. I was fine wearing pants, shorts, etc... My family, cousins, and majority of my friends outside of school did so too. I always saw tznius as a “Ma’ayanot thing.” Finding clothing for school was always a hassle and on the weekends I found it was much easier to get dressed. Also, in terms of “fashion,” the shorter outfits always looked better, they were more revealing, better looking, and “cool.” To me the shorter the skirt, the better it looked, the lower the shirt, the better it looked. I’m sure many people think this way too. Also, it IS very hard to find “fashionable” clothing that is tznius. I would say that from a fashion sense, dressing not tzniusly is easier and more stylish. Another major part for me was that it was easier to dress not tzniusly, I was lazy and by dressing that way I never had to check myself. Every Sunday, I put on a pair of jeans, every morning for school I threw on a shirt and skirt and it was simple. Who cared? I can say that nowadays I put a lot more effort into getting dressed every morning. Not only do I have to choose outfits that match and look nice together but before I leave my room I need to make sure that my outfit covers everything and ill say that it’s a pretty difficult and annoying thing.Although I think it is up to every individual to make her own decision of how she wants to dress I believe it is important to realize a few things:
1- The way you dress (sadly) reflects they way you want people to see you. Unfortunately this is what society has come to. The way you dress reflects how you are seen. When you expose to your body its like saying “I am a body, look at it!” and its there for everyone to see. If you take a step back, you’ll realize that you don’t want people to see you as your body. You want people to look at you for who you are inside and not for what assets you possess.
2- You cannot say, “I dress this way because it’s easier.” There is no such thing as showing something accidentally on a daily basis. Every zipper is zipped up to a specific place. It never “just happens” to be zipped up to a certain spot. By you dressing a certain way it is again a reflection of what you choose to allow other people to see.
3- I read a book that gave this analogy or something along these lines: A woman was choosing her outfit for a business meeting. Her friend took out one of her party/date outfits and said, “Here wear this,” the woman responded to her friend saying “I can’t wear that to a job interview! They wont take me seriously!” and the friend responded, “so when you go on a date the guy isn’t supposed to take you seriously?” think about the impression you give off by the way you dress. This woman said it herself.
4- The more precious something is the more it is hidden and reserved. If we “treasure our bodies” there should be no excuse for why we show it off. If we want to keep something sacred and special it shouldn’t be exposed for everyone to see or it will loss its value.
5- On a personal note, after I began to put effort into dressing more appropriately many people came over to me and said “Wow! When did you get so frum?” Unfortunately, like I was saying before, people judge you by what you wear. Who said that since I was dressing differently I was any more frum then I was the day before? That’s not necessarily true. However this comes to show that the way you dress really affects the way people see you and if you wish for them to give you respect you need to respect yourself as well.
6- I know, (because I’ve been there) that dressing tzniusly looks really hard but after having gone through the change ITS NOT AS HARD AS IT SEEMS and it really makes all the difference. Let me explain from my personal experience:
a. At first ill admit that my reasons for my change in dress was all for the wrong reasons and when I say that I mean it. I did not change the way that I dress because I had any respect for the laws of tznius. Now not only has my attire changed but my approach to tznius changed as well.
b. To everyone who spend hours getting ready to go to a co-ed social scene, its not about revealing the most skin, it really boils down to who you are and that’s what should be grabbing peoples attention. The guy that only pays attention to you for what your wearing isn’t the guy who’s attention you want. I think it’s very important to realize that they way you dress if first and foremost for you and dressing a certain way shouldn’t be a mode of getting attention.
c. Also, I remember thinking to myself “how will I ever be able to cover my elbows in the summer! This is ridiculous! It’s boiling hot!” but know that it is not as hard as it seems. After I did it for a week or two I got used to it. They say, if you are on the path to something good. Hashem will help you continue along the path. And this really was true for me. I wasn’t as hot as I thought id be and dressing tzniusly wasn’t as impossible as I thought. Once I started, it was easier than I could have ever imagined. I got over the fact that when I went to a store they didn’t have anything for me to buy. Instead I found other stores to shop in and when I did find something it made my shopping experience even better! (And let me add, I have found many awesome tznius outfits at many “normal” stores)d. You don’t look gross when you dress tzniusly. The people who you see dressing tzniusly but looking “gross” never had style to begin with. I think I look fine. Ill admit that according to the medias standards I may not look the “coolest” but I do think I dress well and I do think a lot my friends who dress tzniusly look good too. Its all a matter of how you do it
7- The idea that dressing tzniusly saves what’s meant for your husband, for your husband is so true. This relates to Shomer Negiyah as well. What you save for your husband will make the marriage experience even more meaningful. Enough said.Just to end off, changing the way I dress has really changed me. Not only in the impression I give off to others but also in the way I feel about myself. I have never felt better about myself. When people look at me a really feel that they are seeing what I want them to see. I also know that I’m not putting myself out there for everyone to see and guys aren’t talking to me because of what they can see. I truly feel that I am giving myself the respect I deserve and I want everyone to realize how important it is to treat yourself with respect as well. Also in response to Mrs. Knoll, while I do think in a school setting dress code should be enforced, I think it is also important to teach the reasons for why we dress this way. And I'm not talking about halachic sources, I mean things where we students can take what we learn and apply it to our daily life and attitude. I think Tznius is more of an understanding and a sense of respect then simply following the rules of the book. While the Torah may serve as our guide, an understanding of the laws is what’s really important for everyone to know.--Jenn
Tuesday, November 3, 2009
E-mail exchange in reaction to tzeniut post
The following e-mail exchange took place between Mrs. Knoll and a student who agreed to have her e-mails posted but wishes to remain anonymous. The student e-mailed Mrs. Knoll, and Mrs. Knoll responded in italics within the student’s e-mail.
Student: Hi Mrs. Knoll, I wanted to respond to your thoughts about tzeniut, but not on the blog, so I decided to email you. I don't think I'll be able to formulate my thoughts as clearly as you were able to, but I will give it a try. I believe that tzeniut is a reflection of one from within. Tzeniut means modest and modesty is something that can only come from within. I think that tzeniut should be the last one on someone's mind who is trying to become more religious. Only after one has accomplished many other mitzvot, and has worked on her/himself, then can one take upon tzeniut. I am constantly bothered by for example, a girl that is not shomer and kisses her boyfriend, but dresses tzeniutly. I wonder, is she faking it? Is she trying to hide behind tzeniut? I know this is a little harsh because it just might be that tzeniut is a mitzvah that is easier for her to follow, but shomer is something that is more difficult, so she chooses to be tzeniut.
Mrs. Knoll: I hear what you're saying and I couldn't agree with you more that tzeniut is a reflection of what is within. However, I don't agree that the within part has to come first and only then be reflected on the outside. I think often, one first starts doing things on the outside and that is precisely what helps create the internal feelings one is striving to achieve. (Mitoch hapeulot nimshachim halevavot - our actions affect our feelings).
Also, I'm not sure why you feel that tzeniut has to come only after most other mitzvot. Meaning, I can certainly understand why it appears hypocritical for a girl who wears only skirts to kiss her boyfriend. And in fact, I personally even agree with you that if she asked me as her teacher which of the 2 she should stop first - wearing pants or kissing her boyfriend, I personally would tell her to stop kissing her boyfriend first, largely b/c a) kissing her boyfriend is according to most (though not all) opinions assur de'oraita, while wearing at least loose pants, according to most opinions is not, and b) b/c as I wrote in my original post, I personally feel that one of the main points of tzeniut is to save her body for her husband in the context of marriage, and I think that not kissing this guy is a way more significant saving of herself than not letting him see her in pants. However, exactly as you wrote, everyone has to do what they feel ready for, and a huge yasher koach to anyone for any and every step he or she takes toward greater shmirat hamitzvot. I don't know if there can be any exactly prescribed path for everyone to follow of what should come first, second, and third. But even if one were to try to outline general guidelines, I'm still not sure why you feel that tzeniut should come last. Since it reflects important Jewish values, and is a powerful statement that one makes that she is trying to live her daily life by God's commands even in an area that is challenging, I'm not saying that it should necessarily be first, but I certainly do not think it should necessarily come last.
Student: But either way, tzenuit should not be something that we do for the sake of looking "froomer". I believe that tzeniut has developed into an external mitzvah that is there to show people "I am froom." And I am guilty of this also. When a girl comes back from Israel, I look to see if she is wearing a skirt or covering her elbows, and then I decide if she is "froom". When I want to be seen as the "froom" girl, I put on a skirt. But another day, I will put on a pair of jeans. I am no longer doing tzeniut for the right reasons.
Mrs. Knoll: I honestly go back and forth myself about how I feel about the "tzeniut to look frummer" thing. On the one hand, I fully agree with you that in its highest, most ideal form, tzeniut really is an internal feeling expressed on the outside and therefore should not be about externally looking frum. However, on the other hand, isn't that a wonderful thing that someone wants to look frum and identify herself as a frum Jew? Sometimes, I even think that may be one of the most valuable aspects of tzeniut - kind of like a girl's form of yarmulke - a way for a Jewish girl to express her pride in being frum and her desire to identify herself and to be identified as such. All too often, we encounter students who are embarrassed to look too frum (or frum at all). Isn't it a fantastic "problem" that someone wants to look frum, even frummer than she really is on the "inside"? In addition, though I agree that there is something off-putting about people doing external things without the sincere feelings and commitment behind them, but the same way as I would of course encourage someone to keep Shabbos rather than violate it even if they are doing so only to follow communal norms, so too, I would rather someone keep the halachot of tzeniut rather than violate them even if not for the most sincere of reasons.
Mrs. Knoll: Much of our focus on tzeniut is NOT about making the school look good. As I wrote in my original post, I truly have come to believe in the deep inherent value of tzeniut (and Shomer Negiah, and all the other laws that preserve the unique sanctity of marriage), and I want our students to recognize it too. However, you are entirely correct in that much of tzeniut is about public perception. Ideally one's level of frumkeit should of course not be judged based exclusively on clothing. However, since it is simply impossible to have a deep, serious conversation with every person we encounter, we simply have no choice other than to base our assumptions about their frumkeit on anything other than what we can externally see. Now, you might say, why make any assumptions at all about anyone else's frumkeit - isn't that judgmental. My answer is No, we need to make assumptions about people (often having nothing to do with frumkeit) all the time for many valid reasons. For example, you go to camp the first day, and you're trying to figure out who is most likely to be similar to you so that you'll relate to each other, understand each other, and have fun together. Of course, we can also often become close friends with people not similar to ourselves, and sometimes we misjudge and find that someone is much more similar to us than we thought at first, but my point is that it is not only normal and unavoidable to make assumptions about people, but it's even a healthy thing to do, as long as we remain open-minded and don't dislike those we think are dissimilar and even remain open to the fact that they may become one of our closest friends.
All that being said, as I wrote, you are correct in that PART of why feel tzeniut is important is because of the public perception it creates about our students. Ideally, I wish everyone would come to Ma'ayanot and meet our students and talk to them (and read our blog!) and see how incredibly thoughtful, passionate, and committed you all are. But that is simply unrealistic. Most people have no choice other than to base their assumptions about Ma'ayanot largely on what they externally see of our students in the pizza shop, in the mall, in shul, wherever. And it would be foolish on our part to ignore that reality. In addition to which, since tzeniut is in fact a halachah, they are not entirely wrong to make certain assumptions about our students' commitment to halachah based on their commitment to this particular halachah.
Furthermore, and Rabbi Besser talks about this a lot, Ma'ayanot really stands for something. In many ways, we are among the flag bearers of Modern Orthodoxy in general and of the women's learning movement in particular. We are one of the only all-girls schools in existence that is passionately frum while simultaneoulsy being passionately committed to giving girls a top-notch education in all realms, including Torah She'be'al Peh. Many, many people are still skeptical about women learning Gemara precisely b/c they feel that so many of the women who learn Gemara are not seriously committed to halachah. If we want not just Ma'ayanot to succeed, but the entire women's learning movement to succeed, it is absolutely imperative that we, as individuals and as a school, dispell and disprove this association between women learning Gemara and lack of commitment to halachah. And built on what I wrote above, since many of the people skeptically tracking the development of this movement (which is so close to my heart!) are doing so from afar without personal access to large numbers of us, all they have to judge us Gemara learners' frumkeit by is our external dress - our commitment to tzeniut. Thus, even if tzeniut did not have deeper significance (which I firmly believe it does), I still think it would be incumbent upon us to adhere to tzeniut simply as a way to make a public statement, "See - we are frum!" (I can totally understand that this might be a very frustrating reason for anyone who doesn't particularly care about women being able to learn Gemara, but again, I do not think this is the only reason behind tzeniut in general, or Ma'ayanot's pushing it in particular. I do think tzeniut has deep, inherent value, as I wrote in my original post.)
Student: But if one still wants to say that the school stresses tzeniut because it is a mitzvah that is on the same level as kashrus and shabbos, then why are those other "big" mitzvos not stressed in a school environment. In the modern orthodox high school world, kashrus and shabbos are just as violated as tzeniut is. I went to a certain elementary school, and not only are my old friends from there not dressing appropriately, but they are also eating non-kosher (gum, candy, dairy restaurants) and are violating shabbos (cell phones) on a weekly basis. If a school really cares about tzenius being followed because it is such a "big" mitzvah, then shouldn't shabbos and kashrus also be just as stressed so that the school can make sure its students are following those laws also?
Mrs. Knoll: You are absolutely right - of course one hundred thousand percent Shabbos and Kashrut should be stressed at least as much as tzeniut! Of course we don't think it's OK if our students are texting on Shabbos as long as they're wearing a skirt while doing it! In Ma'ayanot we devote an entire year of halachah to studying Hilchot Shabbos and devote an entire other year to learning Hilchot Kashrut, while Hilchot Tzeniut only receive about 6 weeks in 12th grade (though I know we speak about it informally other years as well). I hope that we have not somehow unwittingly given the impression that those mitzvot are not important to us. God forbid! Please let me know if we somehow did imply that we don't care about those mitzvot or that we would rather our students wear a skirt than keep Shabbos. I can't imagine that we did, but sometimes we imply things we don't mean so please let me know if clarification is needed to the student body at large.
I am deeply saddened and disturbed by what you wrote about so many of your elementary school friends violating Shabbos and Kashrut on a regular basis - it is tragic and truly, deeply disturbing. And I hope that those schools are addressing the issue and are encouraging their students to grow in their Shabbos and Kashrut observance. I think the reason we in Ma'ayanot tend to talk more about tzeniut than Shabbos or Kashrut (though again, in halacha classes, Shabbos and Kashrut get WAY more time than tzeniut) is NOT b/c we think tzeniut is more important but b/c our assumption is that our students are not flagrantly violating Shabbos and Kashrut, while many of them are flagrantly violating tzeniut, so tzeniut needs more encouragement than the other 2. If I am incorrect in assuming this about Shabbos and Kashrut, please please let me know, b/c then we certainly need to start reemphasizing them.
*Note: The student wrote back, “You are right in Ma'ayanot students are not usually violating shabbos and eating non kosher.” That’s a relief!
Student: And furthermore how can a school just decide which is the biggest mitzvah it should stress? We don't know what Hashem was thinking when He commanded us to be tzeniut, so how are we allowed to single that mitzvah out and say we are all going to make sure the students follow this mitzvah? Again, I feel like schools push tzeniut for the wrong reasons.
Mrs. Knoll: I hear your point, and you are right - we don't know what God had in mind. But tzeniut is a mitzvah that our students are flagrantly violating right in front of our faces every day, so how can we not say something? If we saw students flagrantly violating Kashrut or Shabbos or any other mitzvah right in front of our faces, of course we would say something about those too. Of course we would never let a student walk in with a cheeseburger and eat it in front of us without saying something! Of course we would never have allowed a student to walk into the elevator at the Shabbaton on Shabbos without saying something! So why should we let students walk around in front of us with skirts above their knees and not say something? We want our students to follow EVERY mitzvah; tzeniut is not the only mitzvah we care about. The reason we seem to be singling out tzeniut more than others is just that the very nature of tzeniut makes it right in front of our faces every day, while other violations, if they are happening (which I fervently hope they are not among Ma'ayanot students in the way you described your elementary school friends), are happening where we don't see them.
Student: I agree with your old view that a school should be focusing more on pushing the students to daven on non-school days, stop speaking lashon hara, make brachas, and daven with more cavana, to name a few. Personally, I struggle with these things every day and I am not even looking at the tzeniut part because I don't see myself as being ready. I still get lazy on sunday mornings, forget brachas constantly, still speak badly of people, and lack cavana in my davening! I wish that my school could teach me, guide me, and stress those things, not just tzeniut.
Mrs. Knoll: We would love to!! Is there something specific you have in mind? A chavruta? A schmooze? A suggestion of books or articles to read? A class discussion about it? A one-on-one discussion? I really hope we have not given the impression that the only area of growth we care about is tzeniut. God forbid! Of course these other areas are vitally important too. I really do not want us to fail you in teaching you and guiding you in these extremely important areas. Please help us help you. I really really mean it. Is there something I personally can do?
*Note: The student wrote back with a number of suggestions and they plan on starting to implement some together.
Student: Finally, I understand that tzeniut, as you said, represents the idea that we believe that our bodies are sacred and should be treated with self-dignity and self-respect. So if it is really about that, shouldn't tzeniut be something one takes upon her/himself? Not something that someone is constantly getting in trouble for. And if a school cares so much about every student having a sense of self-respect, then why bog students down on the tiny details that her skirt has a slit above her knee or when she bends down her shirt is no longer tzeniut? Tzeniut should be something taught and encouraged to all students. After the rules and forcing is done with, students may begin to see tzeniut as a burden, not as something that shows self-respect for one's body and represents one modesty from within.
Mrs. Knoll: That is very true and it is a danger we are well aware of. However, the opposite problem is that if we don't say anything and don't try to enforce the laws of tzeniut, then by walking past short skirts every day and not saying anything, we would essentially be giving the message that we don't care, that tzeniut is not important, that the short skirts are totally OK. You are right, I wish everyone would decide to take tzeniut on herself, without us having to say or do anything. (Trust me, you have no idea how much I wish it. Besides for it clearly being the ideal in terms of the meaningfulness of the mitzvah, getting people in trouble and telling them they have to change is terribly unpleasant.) But if we don't say anything, what would ever spur anyone to come to it on her own? And if the answer is just to do educational programming but not enforce it, that goes back to what I wrote above - if a student came in to Ma'ayanot with a cheeseburger, we would never simply have an educational, inspirational talk with her about it, but conclude that the decision to stop eating it is something she has to come to on her own - of course we would take it away! Why should tzeniut be different?
Anyway, both of us (Mrs. Knoll and the student) hope that this exchange is meaningful to some of you. Keep learning, thinking, and growing!
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